Michael London

Hennepin County Guardian Ad Litem, Michael London, regularly dismissed our fears of our father.

July 29 1992 Transcripts:

Holly:
I'm concerned about when the children express concerns about visitation and stuff, how are they handled? Like, you know, they're still afraid, and , you know, what happens then?

Michael London:
Yeah, It's uh, eh, it's really a difficult situation, Holly, because us,,, what I'm not certain about and, and I guess I'd have , I'm not getting any feedback from the other professionals with regard to this other than , than, uh, the many, many, many, if not most, kids will express, uh concern, fear, a desire not to visit with, uh, the, the noncustodial parent. And, uh, many times, all it is, is a matter of lip service. Uh, Sometimes they don't wan to be inconvenienced, sometimes they, you know, they there, there are just a lot of reasons, a whole host of reasons.

Holly:
Well the kids told you.

Michael London:
Wait, wait, wait, and, and the, the difficult part in, in uh determining what to do about visitation is trying to decide how much of their (position) is,is inconvenience and oh ‘I don't wanna’ go’ and how much of it is a is a real concern or fear of, of going. and uh, uh, and I know. I mean ‘çause I've sat and I've talked to the kids afterwards, and I know that they have some fears and they asked some, you know, lots of questions about what was going to happen and what could they do…

You know how hard do we push the kids to go… and uh uh how much of the the kids are saying is really the fear that they're expressing or just tte idea that uh uh they don't wanna’ go and it's inconvenient. And and we all have to do things that we don’t like to do or, or are uh are inconvenienced by…

I didn’t want to leave them with the idea that if they call me and say my daddy’s you know Mark is hitting me and I Ive been whatever it is that I will come over and automatically take them out of the house and find Mark guilty before we find out what s happen.

Holly:
Right but shouldn’t you say that if you do find out he has abused them

Michael London:
…what he asked me was if I call you and tell you that Mark is hitting me will you came and take me out of the house. What I don’t want is for him to find that he’s uncomfortable with Mark and say well I know how I can get out of this all I need to do is call Mike and tell him that that mark is hitting me and his gonna’ come and take me away from here.

Holly:
Well Mr. London, my kids aren’t my kids aren’t liars!

Michael London:
Well no no, no, well okay you’ve gotta’ understand that that I can’t see if you leave that kind of an opening somebody might take advantage of it. The kids might take advantage of it… Michael… You gotta’ remember that we’re dealing with children, young children and sometimes I think I don’t think that they hear everything that is said. They, they may only hear what they want to hear. I repeated it on on on a couple of occasion that number one Zachary asked me will you believe me? Do you believe me? I said yes I believe you but you call, if you call and tell me that something is happening yes I will believe you okay… but I can’t tell him that simply because he calls and accuses Mark or Rena or Mrs. Collins of doing something that I’m immediately gonna, gonna call 911 and I’m gonna come over and have the kids removed because I don’t know what the situation is…. Like I say, I repeated it a couple of time to him uh because as a matter of fact there was one time I mean he he asked me three or four time.

Holly:
I know I heard him

Michael London:
And and and then there was the one time I even laughed because he was trying to get me to say yes I will come as soon as you call me and take you away.

Holly:
Well what is so wrong with that don’t you understand with the past abuse he’s been through that he needs that security?

Michael London:
Okay because, because, because the problem with that is I don’t want to be manipulated by him calling me just because he’s in a situation he doesn’t want to be in okay…

Why shouldn’t the kid be given the same you know the benefit of the doubt. If they call you that there’s a problem?

Michael London:
Well I’m I’m not gonna treat them any differently than a than I’m than, I’m gonna treat and adult who calls me and says the same thing because I can’t be sure that who’s ever calling me is doing it because the incident really took place or because they just wanna’ get the hell out of there and the easiest way to do that is to call up and say he hit me he hit me he hit me.

Holly
You know mark has a history of lying not the children! The children haven’t ever been caught lying yet. They don’t lie! They’ve been telling the truth!

Michael London:
It it will be made clear that the kids will have access to the telephone but by the same token, I mean if he’s abusing the kids what the heck does he care if he lets them use the phone/ (laughing) do you know what I’m saying?

Holly:
Michael that doesn’t help cause that’s what I’m fearing… You know look at you, you just made light of it. Mike this is that’s the reality I’m living with. You’re right! I am living with the reality that Marks gonna’ start beating them and of course he’s not gonna’ let them phone, use that phone. That’s the reality I live with

Michael London:
Well

Holly:
It’s not a laughing matter!

Michael London:
I’ll tell you I’m not I am not going to be there 24 hours 7 days a week!